Stu's LBP test 20-10-08

[Robh]

Sean,

Everyone has been in the evening except for yourself. The last person to not have a good test was Paul Tunnel who was suffering from the effects of the 12hr.

Rob

[Robh]

Looking at the recording data sheet for Stu there's no real clear trend for Sp02 drop and resp rate increase like I've seen with Michelle & Keith when trying to find the crossover point for STF/FTF, unfortunately humans aren't perfect like motor engines. So with Stu's case I've used LBP - 20 beats as a starting point.

Between 145-156bpm the resp rate increases slightly so I suggesed to Stu to go out for a few rides @ 145 to monitor the following as a guideline in fine tuning his Bi-STF zone :-

1) Resp rate (30bpm) is it stable for 3-4hrs @ HR 145?

2) Whe pushing HR up to 150 does he feel an increase in resp rate or is it still the same as HR 145?

3) Food intake is he needing to take on more as the rides @ HR 150 rides instead of HR 145. Does he feel ike he's going to bonk? I know he said he feels needs to take on plenty of carbs when riding for a few hours @ HR 155.

For myself I ride for 4-4.5hrs @ HR 145 (BI-STF zone) with 25g of carbs & BCAA every hour and not feeli like I'm going to bonk. One way of checking if I'm riding in my FTF zone instead of STF is to monitor my pre-breakfast and post breaskfast lactate values for glycogen depletion.

I can also sense my HR has risen from 145bpm when my resp rate has increased, a quick glance down at HR monitor confirms what I have sensed.

[Robh]

After the test was over I got Stu to play around with his breathing @ HR 145. Naturally he breathes @ 30bpm but with focussed breathing with the diaphragm we got this down to 15bpm with a much deeper waveform for inhalation and exhalation.

Being conscious of breathing patterns will lead to improving efficiency by using the diaphragm rather than the accessory muscles. This will allow more airflow with less caloric expenditure allowing the body to cycle faster before the Central Governor kicks in.

[Stu Merckx Man]

i went out for 3 hours today and with 3 nutrigrain bars (about 90 odd calories in each).

including stopping at lights and junctions etc, stopping to eat (just for a minute or so to eat each bar), and stopping to text adam, my average heart rate was 148, and i felt fine at the end of the ride. for the whole ride i was aiming for 150-155, but did let myself drift up to 165-170 up smaller hills , though only for very short spaces of time, and if i was passing another cyclist.

whilst i was generally riding along, it was always at around 153-156, and i didnt feel like bonking at any point, and i still feel fresh now. so i think 155 could well still be into my stf.

[Robh]

Try 3-4 days in a row and report back how you feel...

If you are riding in the STF zone you should be able to do these rides without much glycogen depletion. If you had a power meter you would see what you performance would be doing each day. i.e is watts the same or is it getting less for the same HR each day and also if it's still reasonable close each hour.

Have fun...

Rob

[Stu Merckx Man]

hey rob, a question- how come my lactate level is higher at rest on the bike, before i have done any riding, than it is when im at the lactate balance point?

[Robh]

[quote="Stu Merckx Man"]hey rob, a question- how come my lactate level is higher at rest on the bike, before i have done any riding, than it is when im at the lactate balance point?

[Stu Merckx Man]

no nothing like that.

but on the train down to yours there were no seats, so i was stood up for a good hour, could that explain it do you think?

[Robh]

[quote="Stu Merckx Man"]no nothing like that.

but on the train down to yours there were no seats, so i was stood up for a good hour, could that explain it do you think?

[Juerg FaCT]

Resting lactate so high ?
2.1 as i can remeber is actually not that high and not that uncommon.
You can't compare it with teh actual number at the LBP , as the number on the LBP is not the actual lactate you would have just by that intensity as it depends on how high it was at the end of the test and the time between each sample taking:
Example
Lactate at end of the test 7.6
Now you drop to 5.4
3.4 and go up to 3.9
You may have the same lactate at the end 7.6
but now you take the lactate 1 - 2 min later ( so longer steps ) but by the same HR
Now you drop perhaps to 3.6
1.9 and go up to 2.7 So first LBP lacte by 3.4
and the second example by 1.9.
Non of them is abn absolute value but a picture of the lactate trend at the specific moment.
The 2.1 pre test lactate can be caused by many different reasons.
here 3 most common explanations.
1. ( no critic on Rob ) but it could have been a measurment mistake.
But with 2.1 unlikely . If I am not sure why I take a second sample and charge the cleint 4 x the fee (
2. Any intake of glucose just short bnefore the tes 10 min =_ will often increase the resting lactate.
3.
If a person was sick and the glucose stores where very empty liver and muscles than we see often higher lactate values as a sign of lactate shuttle function.
4.
If somebody is a bit nerveous ( exited ) he has a tendency to release adrenalin ) which will release as a reaction more glucose from the liver glycogen storage and the higher blood sugar lvel now with liitle activity yet can trigger again a blood shuttle reaction , where the lactate will work as the "truck" to shuttle energy ( in this case glucose in different body areas like liver and or other body parts.
Gladden and Brooks show nice evidence, that laxctate is one possiblity to use stored glucos in the muscles ( muscle glycogen ) in other parts of teh body.
Traditionaly we learned , that once you stored glucoe in the muscle, that's it , it only can be used there and not anymore in other areas like for the brain or arm glucogen can't be used in the legs.
As so often we seem to where wrong . Thanks to lacatate we may be able to shuttle leg glycogen to the arms and visa versa. How by converting glucose in the legs into lactate and now the body can move it to other areas.
It is one of Noakes puzzle answers, of survival of the body.
The body seems not to give up if there is any other way to keep itself alive. Brooks lactate shuttle theory works nicely into the CGM model and answers many different open questions.

[Stu Merckx Man]

thanks juerg.

[Paul H]

Stu - Watts happened? [url]http://www.addiscombe.org/members/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=6065&p=49060#p49060[/url]

[Stu Merckx Man]

where to start!
- the chest infection all august
-tonsillitis in july and august
-having 2 weeks off 2 weeks ago
-and the power meter on my turbo trainer is clearly not accurate

but watch out come march old man!