In the Zone

[Paul H]

Hi Juerg,

Is there any chance you could put a summary or conculsion at the bottom of your posts.

[quote]Once the body adjusts ( adapats ) to the stimmulus with not just reacting , but actually building a stronger system ( Bone density, more blood vessels, bigger heart , more mitochindria ) than we actually can speak from a structural change.

[Juerg FaCT]

Paul , thanks for this question.
My answer would be:
Functional training is unlikely changing the body into more structural adapatations.
The major research done in that field is done by Hans Selye , the father of stress reasearch and we have major information about that on our forum.
So , as I am a small spot compared with his incredible research I do , as so many people do , rely on his work.
I think Rob showed one the basic principle of functional reaction which can lead over a certain amount of time to a structural adapatation.
The major still open question is:
How does a stressor has to be applied, so that repetitive functional training leads to a structural change.
This is the long standing open question in any reaearch project. Why do certain people show faster structural changes with exactly the same stressor , and in other people it comes to a breakdown of the systems.
The answer may be in the simple fact. that we are all reacting individually.
This is eaxctly the point, why we try to find individual bio marker based "zones" and try to avoid % of a maximal performance or test version.
For some people working out on 80 % based on a FTP test may be very successfull and the timing they do that just optimal. Meaning the rest and workout ratio is just so good , that the initial functional reaction triggers a very ealy structural change.
Another person following the same plan and the same intensity 9 as his FTP ) is exactly the same may see no progress at all , as 80 % just simply may not stress enough us a single workout , or the time between teh worjkouts may be simply to far appart. The third with all the same plan may be injured in no time, as the 80 % intensity will trigger as well a functional reaction , but the recovery in between does not allow the body to try to swithc to some structural changes.
The timing , how fast a functional stress may turn to a structural reaction is very different from system to system as well.
Skin has a very fast reaction time after a functional stress ( blister ) to a thicker skin as a structural adapatation.
Bone is somewhat slower muscle app. similar . tendon ligaments again need longer and more repetitive optimal functional stimmulation. Nerv tissue may be one of the slowest ( co-ordination ) and so on.
The later is one of teh big discussion , whether we can change RPM after many years of cycling so easy. ( example Ulrich / Armstrong discussions )

Summary Paul you are right if you take it by the word.
Any functional workout can lead ,( but has not to ) to a structural change if physiological properly applied.
To see , whether we have an optimal timing and ratio rest /work we work on a FaCT system , where we can assess the above open questions.
Do we have the answer.
No we are still far off, and that what makes it so interesting / We try to add puzzle to puzzle.
What we are working on just now is the interesting question , whether certain workouts really can stimmulate the heart differently ( stroke voulme and EDV ) and what is happneing if we stay on a fixed performance versus a fixed stroke volume.
Here a very short glimps into the first trends we can see.
Fixed performance.
1 After a certain time ( depending how close we are at the FTP level or LBP level ) we see a sudden change in the hearts reaction. The intitial increase in SV ( stroke volume with a very stable LVET ( time the left ventricle is open ) suddently sems to change . The SV starts even dropping and the LVET is dropping as well. This may lead to a not optimal diastolic time and a loss of cardiac perforfomance. The CO is mostly the same.
Question to Paul : do you think we stimulate now more LVET reaction , but loose the SV stimmulus .
If we stay in a fixed HR and fixed RR we se a drop in performance ( wattage ) byt we see no change in LVET but a sudden increase in SV and CO.
Question to Paul : Do you think this would be an overload for SV ?
The second big field we try to assess is the big discussion of "Lactate tolerance"
As we know by now , there is no such thing like lactate tolerance ( Hill, Nokaes, Brooks Gladden ,Kratz a.s.o )
So the focuss is much more on the question :
How do we stimmulate MCT 1 and MCT4 behaviour and what type of workouts can do that.
Stay tuned for questions on this interesting topic.

[Robh]

Here's a diagram copied from Juerg's forum showing Functional/Structural adaption.

[img]http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t209/sbc205/1638.jpg[/img]

[Paul H]

Juerg,

[quote]Question to Paul

[Juerg FaCT]

Hallo Paul.
Thanks for your reply . I have no answer either , and that is very often the case. So what we try for the moment is to work just before it drops ( as you suggest ) and one group just after it dropped , and than reassess and after that change the groups to the other version.
The interesting part in sport is the mythical believe , that it alwasy has to be an overload.
Many stress researcher ( with Hans Selye) as the leading father in this area ) as well as many endocrinological reseaearcher don't believ in overload as the only way of stressing the system.
The majority today believes, that it has to be some kind of a change form the "normal" daily level. This does not has to be harder and faster , just different. The newer believ as well in sport is that the changes come over hormonal shifts casued by changes.
CERA is a very nice new generation example, where we not overload the system at all , but switch the way the hormonal reaction in the EPO axis will react.
Many hormons are this days split in
a) functional hormons and structural hormones.
Here an example of a functional hormon " Adrenalin
and her one for a structural hormon Testosteron.
So many ideas in training foccuses on this interesting idea.
Question is asked :
What does the training releases : a functional hormon or a structural hormon.
Does a functional hormon has some connectiion with a structutal reaction or is it simple just here to creat a functional reaction to survive the meoment.
So many more open questions here than answer but a very interesting way of looking into new ideas in training processes. Thansk Paul.

[Paul H]

I would guess where SV drops is close to "AT" pace - above LBP so would expect this to be a good training intensity to work at.



Rob said you have worked with Seb Coe, do you have any stories?

[quote="Robh"]I suspect the point where SV starts to drop varies greatly depending on your endurance levels and would expect the best stimulation would be just before this point.