Hills and Cadence

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Hills and Cadence

Postby Michelle » Sun Nov 02, 2008 2:31 pm

I have a question about cadence, and about riding up slight rises and hills at LBP - 20. I know I should really pm Rob but I reckon a few people I have spoken to may be interested in the answer, so I decided to post it here.

When I get to any sort of hill, the old HR starts to rise. So I slow down on the bike, start to change down the gears and because I have a triple, I mostly manage to stay in the middle cog. But because I am going slower my cadence drops right down from about 85 to 55-60.

As I understand it, if you spin your way up a hill in a lower gear and with a higher cadence, you are putting less strain on the muscles and using slow twitch fibres (ie fat) for fuel. But if you tend to grind your way up in a higher gear with a lower cadence, you are putting more load on the muscles and if this happens the fast twitch fibres are being recruited because more power is needed and more glycogen is used.

Bearing in mind I am not actually putting much power down, should I be spinning a higher cadence when I hit the hills, or am I still doing BI STF training if I am crawling up them at a lower cadence.

:?:

Marky Mark posed this question last week, and I know Rob was talking to Jayne (Jane?) about this this week.
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Re: Hills and Cadence

Postby Robh » Sun Nov 02, 2008 6:16 pm

Was speaking to Juerg on pvt email this week about someone I tested recently.

His reply on their slow cadence and hills was :-

Slower RPM means higher muscle contraction forces in the legs which means less blood flow and less O2 so changes for the moment to more O2 independent energy production even if the HR stays low. This leads to an increase in Hydrogen ions resulting in heavy legs.

I think if your spending the whole ride at low cadences then your not in the 02 dependent system but if it's for the hills only I don't think you meed to worry too much.

Obviously Juerg would best best person to confirm this.

Juerg has also kindly sent me some workouts for this person to incorporate into their training to try and nail down their weaknesses.

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Re: Hills and Cadence

Postby Robh » Sun Nov 02, 2008 6:35 pm

In Mallocra I was shown some co-ordinations workouts and Andrew wrote the following to me on the FaCT forum :-

Coordination training can come in a number of different forms, especially if considering some of the different sports that we help people prepare for. Consider the extreme example of swimming, that has a HUGE coordination component, that amounts to nearly 90% of the improvements that most young swimmers make in performance.

But, I assume you are asking about cycling coordination specifically...

Though the sport of cycling seems simple (just pedal in circles for hours on end), the application of three joints (hip, knee, ankle) to a circular motion takes more coordination than you might think.

I focus on three different types of coordination...
high cadence sets working higher and higher cadence for as long as possible at 110/120/130/140 RPM. I can now sustain 120 RPM for up to 20 minutes, before my neurologic system completely gives out. I should note, his is really the first year I have focused on this aspect of my cycling.

The second type of coordination is recruitment of more muscles which requires "maximal" efforts, which we try to achieve by very short, very high intensity intervals, 15-20 seconds ALL OUT efforts. The theory is these sets help the neurological system to fire more muscle fibers, in coordination than during regular high intensity exercise.

The third method we use is with the aid of Power Cranks, which adds a whole new dimension to the above two sessions, as I am sure everyone will agree who has tried to spin or do hard intervals with isolated single leg sessions.

As with any of the methods we are incorporating, it is the structural adaptation we are looking for to provide the long term improvements, and it may be over a year before I will see the improvements in my results from the focus I have placed on coordination this year.

I believe Juerg has worked for quite some time with some of his athletes, and may have more specific training ideas to work with.

Our sessions are dictated by what the athlete is able to do now, with the goal of increasing fluidity of motion, and economy of effort over time. If they can ride 90RPM comfortably, we aim to increase this to 100RPM over a number of weeks, and incorporate high cadence work to help achieve this.

Interestingly, our young athlete (14 years old) with thousands of miles on a trainer in the past two years, rides comfortably at 120RPM, as he has learned to generate power through high cadence, rather than through high muscle tension, to avoid strain and the potential damage that slow cadence work might cause.
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Re: Hills and Cadence

Postby Robh » Sun Nov 02, 2008 7:55 pm

Michelle,

Posted your question on the FaCT forum :-

http://www.fact-canada.com/discus/messa ... 1225650897
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Re: Hills and Cadence

Postby Michelle » Sun Nov 02, 2008 8:28 pm

Thanks Rob, I went to the FaCT forum and had a look at Andrew's answer.

I think from what he has said, and what you have said, and what I know already, that I should stop being lazy and change down into my granny cog and spin at my normal cadence, whenever I get to a big hill.

Bring back summer and the nice bike, the gears are so much easier to use :D
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Re: Hills and Cadence

Postby Robh » Sun Nov 02, 2008 8:49 pm

I purposely changed my 39 x 23 to a 27 when I came back from Mallorca so I could spin more than grind as I used the triple gearing on the rental bike in Mallorca a lot when I was climbing.
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Re: Hills and Cadence

Postby Michelle » Sun Nov 02, 2008 9:01 pm

Yup, I am finding my triple is helping a lot at the minute
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