This FaCT thing

I know all this training business makes us sound a bit serious but, well, some people really are into this bike lark so feel free to talk about all training & self improvement related topics in here

Re: This FaCT thing

Postby Paul H » Tue Dec 02, 2008 4:43 pm

Marco - your observation seems to be saying that if you do slower rides, you feel less tired the next day compared to a harder ride. Surely you didnt need somebody to explain that to you.
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Re: This FaCT thing

Postby Robh » Tue Dec 02, 2008 6:41 pm

Hi Marco,

You could have done the following to find your zones and once you had the info I'm sure somebody on here would have helped you out :-

1) Buy your yourself a cheap HR monitor, find your max HR and use the BCF zones :- http://www.machinehead-software.co.uk/b ... lator.html

2) Get a lactate threshold test done at a uni to find your zones, costs about £150 :- http://www.wmin.ac.uk/biosciences/page-1030

3) Buy a £600 powermeter and test yourself for an hour to find your functional threshold power and then use the Coggan zones for your levels :- http://www.cyclingpeakssoftware.com/power411/levels.asp

Rob
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Re: This FaCT thing

Postby Sylv » Tue Dec 02, 2008 6:43 pm

Yay - the return of FaCT talk :D I was missing it

So one question for Rob - your LBP has been tested at 165bpm which is the highest within ACC if not mistaken, meaning your LBP -20 rides are done at 145bpm which Sean (and more) would certainly find less boring than riding at 130bpm or less - was that your first test or has your LBP HR increased over time, with the kind of training you had been doing? If it was your first test, would you say there is a chance the kind of training your had been doing might have helped this, or do you think you had always been at 165bpm?
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Re: This FaCT thing

Postby -Adam- » Tue Dec 02, 2008 7:09 pm

[quote="marco"]sean - I don't think there is any such thing as 'boredom' - its more of a label we use to mask something else - normally that there is something else we would rather be doing instead. When you can identify what that thing is and you find out where your motivation lays then you can work out what you should be doing. Eg if you go into lbp rides thinking "this is a waste of a session because i believe that i will only get fast/fit/vicky/successful" (delete as applicable!) if I ride really fast then the motivation isnt there and subconsciously you would rather be doing something else - ergo "boredom"


Yes, but I just did a 45min recovery session on the rollers... I would have rather been out on the road of course. But In the grand scheme of things those 45mins are every bit as important as yesterdays 4hours. Was I still bored... Of course I was!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Re: This FaCT thing

Postby Robh » Tue Dec 02, 2008 7:21 pm

[quote="Sylv"]Yay - the return of FaCT talk :D I was missing it

So one question for Rob - your LBP has been tested at 165bpm which is the highest within ACC if not mistaken, meaning your LBP -20 rides are done at 145bpm which Sean (and more) would certainly find less boring than riding at 130bpm or less - was that your first test or has your LBP HR increased over time, with the kind of training you had been doing? If it was your first test, would you say there is a chance the kind of training your had been doing might have helped this, or do you think you had always been at 165bpm?


Stu's LBP is also 165bpm.

3 months prior to the Mallorca trip wherre I would be tested for my LBP, I was doing rides @ 130-132bpm. Why 130-132? Because Juerg looked at some of my power files from last year where I was holding power & HR constant for 3-4hr rides so he took a wild guess my LBP to be around 150-155bpm. Those rides were in the 150-155 HR av.

My schedule looked like this just before I bumped into Juerg & the Spirotiger :-

Nov 07 to end of Jan 08
Monday.... 1hr30 total, 3 X 25mins at 95% FTP
Tuesday... 1hr total 2 X 20mins at 95%FTP
Wednesday... 1hr15 total, 1hr at 85% FTP
Thursday...1hr @ 75-80% FTP
Friday... 45 minutes recovery ride
Saturday ...3hr group ride, plenty of time spent in tempo range.
Sunday...rest day no cycling


Feb 08 - April 08 (just before Mallorca trip), off the top of my head it looked like this most weeks but would change depending on fatigue. If my watts was too low for the HR I just ended the session.

Monday.... 2hrs @ 130-132bpm
Tuesday... 2hrs @ 130-132bpm
Wednesday...2hrs @ 130-132bpm
Thursday...off
Friday...2hrs @ 130-132bpm
Saturday ...4.5hrs @ 130-132bpm
Sunday...2hrs @ 130-132bpm

Power was in the 190-205 watt range and cadence around 85-90rpm.

2 days before the Mallorca FaCT trip my ramp test looked like this, I was feeling tired so was unable to push to high :-

Ramp test - 87av cadence
Watts HR
99 95
118 102
136 110
154 120
178 120
190 129
213 141
233 147
256 157

A week later in Mallorca my LBP was tested @ 165bpm but I did not bring my powertap with me and the TaCX flow power trainers didn't work either out there.

When I came back from Mallorca training went all Pete tong. Got ill the next day getting off the plane and was ill for 3 weeks then had relationships problems at home so lost lots of training like nearly 3 months then was ill again etc.....

Where's my LBP right now? God knows....

Rob
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Re: This FaCT thing

Postby -Adam- » Tue Dec 02, 2008 7:39 pm

Many things, many things, Marco. But doing the same session on the road, although infinitely more exciting, would have been much less efficient.

That said, you could have put me on the rollers all day on the beach in Barbados with lots of pretty women wandering by... :lol:
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Re: This FaCT thing

Postby Michelle » Tue Dec 02, 2008 9:38 pm

Rollers Rule!

I love 'em, Adam, what's your problem :shock: ?
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Re: This FaCT thing

Postby Paul H » Tue Dec 02, 2008 11:34 pm

Ive missed the FACT talk as well.

[quote]on saturday I felt good so rode at lbp with long sections spent at lbp+10 as I was so cold I wanted to hurry it up with a fair while spent at lbp+20 whenever the road went uphill. When I got home I felt like s**t. Legs felt heavy and bad, I was reminded of the fatigue I'd suffered from previously and I couldn't face going out to ride the next day, even for fun with mates. I knew I'd overdone it again.


Marco - Im glad you are enjoying your cycling. I dont know if you are following any type of training program or not, but I would say if you are, the above mentioned ride seems to indicate that its not working very well for you in terms of improving your fitness.
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Re: This FaCT thing

Postby -Adam- » Wed Dec 03, 2008 12:25 am

[quote="Michelle"]Rollers Rule!

I love 'em, Adam, what's your problem :shock: ?


The novelty will wear off Michelle!

I don't hate them themselves, it would be the same as a Turbo if I had one of them. Im just not all that fond of my garage wall thats all. And occassionally when I can be bothered to bring out my laptop to watch something, they're noisy enough to mean I can't hear much of what I'm trying to watch anyway.

I did find visualising all the races I cocked up this year helped though. Nothing like reminding yourself of that race, where the guy who beat you that day hasn't touched you for the rest of the year, in order to motivate you!
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Re: This FaCT thing

Postby huw williams » Wed Dec 03, 2008 10:38 am

Saturday 2.00 pm powertap test on the rollers.

Once monthly test - very controlled HR range for 90 mins - measure the power, plot the progress.

Switch the telly on, do a twenty minute warm up by which time the teams are on the pitch

Welsh national anthem starts and immediately the heart rate is soaring above target. settle down, breathe, get it under control. It gets worse - Lee Byrne and Shane Williams combine at the breakdown, tear through the Wallabies defence and Williams goes over. There's stunned Aussies all over Cardiff and after just 4 minutes its Wales 5 Australia 0. By now my Heart rate is almost an annoyance. Every time we unleash another rapier-like flowing move through the backs I'm way above target zones. Byrne goes over just before the half and I'm sprinting on the Champs Elysees

Second half we're defending like lions and its very tense - I'm struggling to keep below sprint levels of intensity as the minutes tick away and we're trading penalties and drop goals. Then Australia score a late try and it's a nail bitter to the end but we hang in for a famous win. My Heart rate is ridiculous, cadence over 110 for an hour - power all over the place.

Rollers boring? If you'd been watching England vs New Zealand maybe :D
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Re: This FaCT thing

Postby kieran » Wed Dec 03, 2008 2:02 pm

[quote="Robh"]

Feb 08 - April 08 (just before Mallorca trip), off the top of my head it looked like this most weeks but would change depending on fatigue. If my watts was too low for the HR I just ended the session.

Monday.... 2hrs @ 130-132bpm
Tuesday... 2hrs @ 130-132bpm
Wednesday...2hrs @ 130-132bpm
Thursday...off
Friday...2hrs @ 130-132bpm
Saturday ...4.5hrs @ 130-132bpm
Sunday...2hrs @ 130-132bpm

Power was in the 190-205 watt range and cadence around 85-90rpm.
Where's my LBP right now? God knows....

Rob


Hi Rob,

was this 2 hours in one session at a constant pace?
Just wondering as I had read elsewhere that low intensity sessions need to be over 1hour 30min to start being effective and my problem is that this type of training (soley due to length) doesn't fit with my priorities.

I commute by bike in the morning which is approx 40min with a lot of stopping and starting due to traffic/lights, and the riding is done at a high intensity. I can't start earlier to lengthen the ride in as I drop the children off to breakfast club and head straight for school. In the evening it is a similar story, and here I am reluctant to lengthen my ride as it will eat into prime family time (family dinner, homework etc prior to the children heading to bed).

This leaves evening or morning only during the week, but evening excercise really buggers up my sleep. Morning time - I already get up at 6:40 to get the children ready for school but this year for training I used to get up and hour earlier to do a one hour session. A 2 hour session would mean getting up at before 5am!

So it would seem to me that this type of training is not suitable for me unless my wife and I were to rejig our routine around my training - this ain't going to happen! At most I would think I could get one or two (occasionally) long sessions in the week, but then I still need to do the commute.
For me this is where interval training suits me, in that I can do them in the morning or use my commute as one.
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Re: This FaCT thing

Postby Robh » Wed Dec 03, 2008 2:10 pm

Yes, the 2 hour sessions were done in one session on a turbo before work @ 4:30am.
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Re: This FaCT thing

Postby kieran » Fri Dec 05, 2008 10:40 am

[quote="Robh"]Yes, the 2 hour sessions were done in one session on a turbo before work @ 4:30am.


:o :o

So what time was bedtime? were you not tired in the evenings??
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Re: This FaCT thing

Postby Robh » Fri Dec 05, 2008 10:45 am

Bedtime is around 11-1130pm.

Am I tired? Sometimes....Who isn't?
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Re: This FaCT thing

Postby kieran » Fri Dec 05, 2008 5:17 pm

people who don't get up at 4:30am after only 5 hours sleep every week day, that's who!
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