A week in 'training'

I know all this training business makes us sound a bit serious but, well, some people really are into this bike lark so feel free to talk about all training & self improvement related topics in here

Re: A week in 'training'

Postby Graham O » Sat Mar 28, 2009 3:55 pm

I've gotta say that you looked pretty strong today (even with the heavy bike)...

You'll have to let us know when you are planning to take the weights off. That way, I can make sure that I'm doing stuff with the family...
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Re: A week in 'training'

Postby Toks » Sat Mar 28, 2009 8:41 pm

[quote="mlocke"]
I'm not riding slower with the weights on.I was in the 19's before the weights on my racing bike which is lighter. I am now on my heavier commuter, with slime in the wheels and an extra few kilos in weights. With this I am still in the 19's and still putting in my turns at the front. I agree that if I were riding slower then there would be no point in adding the weight.

Er... I'm glad that you've now riding in a faster group. However any conclusion you've come to has to be purely speculative since so many factors come in to play (groups speed, wind, motivation of yourself and others, and fitness gains which you would make regardless of what bike you rode...You still haven't addressed the point I'm making. When I do my commutes to Luton and back (65 miles) its usually with a fairly large ruck sack on my back. Of course when I ride this distance without ruck sac I'm quicker. However I can't simply deduce from this that RIDING WITH A RUCK SACK MAKES ME STRONGER. WHETHER I HAVE A RUCKSACK OR NOT I TYPICALLY RIDE AT 85% PERCENT IN TERMS OF PERCEIVED EFFORT - THATS WITH OR WITHOUT A RUCK SACk on my back

[quote="mlocke"]
However I do think that the basic raw power needs to be there in order for you to be in a position for the others to come into play. As I think I said earlier I refuse to believe that riding a heavier bike will not increase my power.
Dude, I'm not suggesting that riding a heavy bike will not help you increase your power. After all if it forces you to ride at or above your lactate threshold for a certain length of time you'll improve. My point is - that this type of training is not

1. EVENT SPECIFIC.
2. IT MAY FORCE YOU TO RIDE IN GEARING THAT DOESN'T MATCH THAT WHAT YOU'D TYPICALLY USE ON YOUR RACE BIKE OVER SIMILAR TERRAIN

[quote="mlocke"]
as I have been doing this for a couple of weeks and have noticed that it is more difficult. If not why would people looking to build strength use progressive loading? If I can get up a hill on a bike that is twice as heavy as those around me and do it in the same amount of time surely when I use a bike that is lighter I will ride up that hill quicker than those around me or I will find it easier? To me this is basic logic?
Ok here's the thing if you can ride up a 3 minute hill at an average of 350watts on your race bike. If you try that on your heavy commuting bike you'll still probably hold the same watts in different gearing and slower. :roll: If you continue to train this way your 3 minute wattage output will increase so you'll get faster on which ever bike you choose to ride up the hill. Anyways if you wanna make it harder why not just use higher gears. The basic logic you speak of doesn't really add up if it did Contador et all would all have weight etc attached to their training bikes
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Re: A week in 'training'

Postby Andrew G » Sat Mar 28, 2009 9:58 pm

No need to shout Toks (THE CAPS LOCK), it just comes across as rude.
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Re: A week in 'training'

Postby mlocke » Sat Mar 28, 2009 10:25 pm

People seem a little hung up on my adding weights to the bike when this was only one part of the original post.

On the comment regarding Contador doesn't do it.

I am sure that Contador doesnt do a lot of things that I do. However, in all serousness just because one person doesn't do something doesn't mean that the rest of us shouldn't. Even though Robert Millar did it and I am sure that Jan Ullrich did also.

Event Specific. Lots of people mentioning this without too much of an explanation. I have two target previously mentioned. The tri, I am trying to build up to steadily and palace I want to be as ready as I can be by the time it starts.

For thsi I plan to do some intervals during the commute and increase the general intesity a couple of days a week. However like many people I largely plan to race myself fit. Nothing as event specific as the event itself?

If I am honest I dont understand where all the three minute talk came from and why my cadence is going to be affected by the weight.
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Re: A week in 'training'

Postby Robh » Sat Mar 28, 2009 10:33 pm

I wouldn't worry about it mlocke, it seems if you go against the norm it seems to get some people's back up...I saw enough of that last year!

Keep up the good work and if i ever come back out on a club run don't be surprised to see me spinning @ 130rpm on powercranks, breathing through one nostril and pedaling one legged!

All the best Rob
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Re: A week in 'training'

Postby Robh » Sat Mar 28, 2009 10:42 pm

The event specificness that Toks is trying to get across to you is what he's picked up from Doctor Andrew Coggan who writes on the wattage forum.

According to Toks Isolated leg intervals (ISL) are not event specific and are a waste of time. Perhaps Toks should do some EMG tests and come back to us and tell us what happen during these ISL's. Or point to a study? Then again there's been no study to say using a note pad is a waste of time :lol: .

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Re: A week in 'training'

Postby Andrew G » Sat Mar 28, 2009 10:44 pm

[quote="Robh"]Keep up the good work and if i ever come back out on a club run don't be surprised to see me spinning @ 130rpm on powercranks, breathing through one nostril and pedaling one legged!

:lol: I'm guessing you're alternating the one leg rota or you've wasted a lot of money on the powercranks when you could have just removed one of the crank arms.
[quote="mlocke"]Event Specific. Lots of people mentioning this without too much of an explanation.

I'm just riding up and down main roads to help me prepare for my TTs. Problem is everywhere has to be exactly 10, 25, 50, or 100 miles away :? .
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Re: A week in 'training'

Postby Sylv » Sat Mar 28, 2009 10:48 pm

[quote="Robh"]Keep up the good work and if i ever come back out on a club run don't be surprised to see me spinning @ 130rpm on powercranks, breathing through one nostril and pedaling one legged!

you play the harmonica at the same time, I buy the cakes

yeh Mark keep up the good work anyhow :D see you on the roads
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Re: A week in 'training'

Postby Antloony » Sat Mar 28, 2009 10:48 pm

[quote="mlocke"]However like many people I largely plan to race myself fit.


Don't you feel as though you've wasted a lot of time by executing the current training plan your using though Mark. Your lucky in the fact that you get to spend so much more time in the saddle than say myself for example. Surely you could have used that time far more efficiently had you followed a more structured training programme instead of just coming up with ideas that may or, more likely, may not work as it seems.

I wanted to go into racing carrying a bit more form than I have before and accomplished this by simply going out with the chain gang and training group and working bloody hard. I could be wrong here but I get the impression your trying to get the desired results without putting in the hard graft it requires. I've tried getting you to come with the training group, today being a good example as it was an ideal day to do it, you could have just wheel sucked Stu and I and just hung on for as long as you could.

I don't wish to sound harsh Mark or to put down your ideas but I just find it frustrating because I firmly believe you have the capability of doing so much more and have the capacity to train more wisely and harder.
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Re: A week in 'training'

Postby Robh » Sat Mar 28, 2009 11:03 pm

[quote="Antloony"][quote="mlocke"]However like many people I largely plan to race myself fit.


I wanted to go into racing carrying a bit more form than I have before and accomplished this by simply going out with the chain gang and training group and working bloody hard.


Your obviously doing it wrong Mark and need to adopt the "No pain no gain philosophy" or train like Contador (anyone know how?).
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Re: A week in 'training'

Postby Antloony » Sat Mar 28, 2009 11:11 pm

[quote="Robh"]Your obviously doing it wrong Mark and need to adopt the "No pain no gain philosophy" or train like Contador (anyone know how?).


I don't ride every ride I do hard and fast, I tend to alternate my club runs and will do one week hard then another week in say a 19's or 20's. Works fine for me as I'm going pretty well and enjoying it :D

If my training method is that poor then I'd love to see how I'd be going if I trained 'properly'. :shock:
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Re: A week in 'training'

Postby Robh » Sat Mar 28, 2009 11:21 pm

[quote="Antloony"][quote="Robh"]Your obviously doing it wrong Mark and need to adopt the "No pain no gain philosophy" or train like Contador (anyone know how?).


I don't ride every ride I do hard and fast, I tend to alternate my club runs and will do one week hard then another week in say a 19's or 20's. Works fine for me as I'm going pretty well and enjoying it :D

If my training method is that poor then I'd love to see how I'd be going if I trained 'properly'. :shock:


You don't have to justify anything to me Ant but if you could break it down in scientific terms why your own body is improving then that might help Mark. Cheers.
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Re: A week in 'training'

Postby Antloony » Sat Mar 28, 2009 11:35 pm

[quote="Robh"]You don't have to justify anything to me Ant but if you could break it down in scientific terms why your own body is improving then that might help Mark. Cheers.


I wish I knew myself. :lol:

I don't really know why it works for me, I'm no expert, all I know is it does work. Maybe its just a case of if you put in some hard rides your body adjusts and develops and becomes more accustomed to what your asking from it when you increase the load.

All the guys I ride with have noticed week in week out how much stronger I'm getting and how my over all stamina and endurance has improved. I'm not afraid to push myself into the red but have also noticed how much quicker I recover when out on the road.

I'm a firm believer in the old quality over quantity rule. I only get 2 rides a week in and have to make them count.
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Re: A week in 'training'

Postby Paul H » Sun Mar 29, 2009 12:09 am

Locky - It looks like you dont have high aspirations and know you could train in a better way but have a simple training plan which suits your lifestyle so good luck with it. I would say Crystal Palace and a Triathlon are so different and it will be hard to train specificaly for both.

Most of the training group are racing now so its a good time to move up.

You need to do bricks as running off the bike is hard if you have not practised it. Its easier to run off the bike if your cadence is higher on the bike which is something I have had to get used to so for that reason, you might want to ditch the weights. Our club will be starting brick sessions soon on farthing downs and Im sure it wouldnt be a problem if you wanted to join in.

Make sure you practice Openwater swimming as it is grim for inexperienced swimmers. It can be claustrophobic, a lot of people hyperventilate and its really hard to go straight without that blue line to follow.
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Re: A week in 'training'

Postby Paul H » Sun Mar 29, 2009 12:21 am

[quote]I wouldn't worry about it mlocke, it seems if you go against the norm it seems to get some people's back up


I found it hilarious. I love FAct - in the same way I like Captain Mainwaring. It seemed to me that it got your back up when somebody dared to question your (incorrect) interpretation of your tests and defend themselves when their own methods of training were being criticised by you.

[quote]You don't have to justify anything to me Ant but if you could break it down in scientific terms why your own body is improving then that might help Mark. Cheers.


Yes Ant, explain in no less than 2000 words of waffle how you have made all this improvement when you must have surely "destroyed your aerobic engine"©fAct by now.
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