Abandonment and Safety Concerns of the Clubrun!!

[Dombo]

[quote="Stephanie"] ...I know I’m not a strong rider....

[Stephanie]

[quote="Antloony"]Poor show if we invite people along for a ride then can't even be arsed to look after them. Too many riders, not enough VC's perhaps???

[quote="Antloony"]Poor show if we invite people along for a ride then can't even be arsed to look after them. Too many riders, not enough VC's perhaps???

[Stephanie]

[quote="Roy Green"]Sorry to hear of your experience Steph, but glad that it's raised some positive thoughts on combatting future problems. I know you are man (?!!) enough to get over it. At least I was happy to play sheepdog to you on a ride back from Box Hill some time ago when the others cleared off - remember it? Think you are now too speedy for me to be cast in that role again!

[Snoop Doug]

[quote="Stephanie"]I understand that this maybe a sensitive subject for the club and by no means did I raise it to slander but only to raise my concern in hope that this will help to better the club in the future.

[Andrew G]

Dombo is right in that everyone should be able to, and prepared to, look after themselves however if club ethos is going to be that people aren't dropped then it should be adhered to. This is less of an issue in faster groups which may have more knowledgeable and / or experienced riders, but shouldn't happen in a 16s group.

Amy makes a very valid point though that the VC in the group can't keep an eye on everything and the group as a whole should be looking out for each other. If someone is struggling or being dropped then say so, that person may be too out of breath to do so themselves.

The fact it is raised would tend to indicate that this is not the norm so it shouldn't be blown out of proportion, but not ignored either.

I know I'm not the most regular CR attendee but I have noticed that group sizes have tended to grow. This seems to be partly due to people joining a group late or nipping on to a group as it's leaving. This may not be down to the group calling Captain or VC, like I say I don't get to enogh CRs to say one way or the other but perhaps another thing to think about by all members when they are joining a CR or group.

[nick de meyer]

the first couple of times i did the CR i was dropped, i just found my way back by a different route, had my own tea stop, and carried on home, it did put me off a bit, but then i trained harder and made sure i could do 50 miles, i'm up for different routes, i get bored of the same one all the time, especially when theres lots of hills and other places to go in the surrey hills. why not suggest that a different group each week go on a hillier route, or a different direction, or do the CR in reverse??

[Paul H]

Shouldnt newbies\novices go on the just for fun group first?

[Phil H]

(Being a relative newbie myself and aware that my comments may be naive)

I agree with Andrew and Amy largely. No, the ride leader/VC can't be omniscient.

The rules need to be clear. If it's "group always stays together" then that's the rule, but the VC can't enforce that alone (see point 1) it's the responsibility of the whole group.

Newcomers ought to be told if there's a chance they'll get left in the middle of nowhere. Don't say on the website that "we're all agreeable and wait for people" if it's not true. Being advised to wait for a slower group is not the same as just being abandoned. If new people are told "anything above 16s is at your own risk" then that's fine also, but people need to know what the rules are before they set out. It's not OK to tell people that it'll be fine then leave them stranded in the lanes of Surrey. It might put them off cycling to the point where they buy an X5 and start writing articles for the Daily Mail.

Obviously people should be prepared with food/drink/tools. (Maybe I'm a bit paranoid but I carry 2 spare tubes, self adhesive patches, multitool and a pump on the club 10s. I don't think that's why I'm slow though)

[huw williams]

[quote="Jojo"]Good on you Jon. I just hope that the club captain takes stock of the cracks that are appearing in the cr. Also note Amy's comment about the SWRC thinking our cr is a joke as we always take the same route. Good to see other options yesterday but sorry to hear what happened to you Stephanie

[Toks]

[quote="Amy"]
Ok, I'm not sure that I'm going to phrase this right, I'm not intending to slight anyone. I think there needs to be a balance. Yes, we do pride ourselves on generally not dropping anybody, especially if they are new to cycling, the club and the route but we shouldn't just rely on the group leader to keep on top of everything. If we're on the front leading, we can't tell what's happening at the back and have to rely on the rest of group to let us know if anyone is struggling. Yes, it would be ideal to have two VCs per group but it doesn't always happen and everybody should realise that they are just as responsible as any VC for the safety and integrity of the group/club. So, we really shouldn't have lost anyone new to the club.

[Marcus]

[quote="Phil Hawkes"]

Obviously people should be prepared with food/drink/tools. (Maybe I'm a bit paranoid but I carry 2 spare tubes, self adhesive patches, multitool and a pump on the club 10s.[size=150] I don't think that's why I'm slow though)[/size]

[Amy]

Well, I hope whoever was VC on this occasion has taken note - I just hope we haven't lost whoever it was the same way as The Shadow. Stop lambasting the VCs, we're only human I still question that the other riders in the group didn't point out what was happening.

Anyway on a more positive note, I think perhaps that the VCs need to have a better outline of what being a VC actually entails. As far as I'm concerned the VC is there to help maintain order, to remind riders to keep the speed to what it says on the tin, keep an eye out for anyone really struggling or dropping off the back as well as reigning in those at the front. I do find this easier to do when the group is doing a gentle rotation because you can see everyone and you can see where gaps form. Now I do think some of the problem is down to the fact that there are VCs in most groups and people feel they can relax and just enjoy the ride - just please remember that you are still responsible for riding safely on the roads and if the VC misses something like a rider off the back, please let us know!

And do we have a basic information thread/page for people new to the cycling and what to expect on the forum and website? If not, how about it?

Yes, go away, Marcus

[PeteS]

I don't want this to sound self-righteous and I have no intention to critisise others.
I think the main clubrun is too easy in many respects, it's one of those things that just goes on without a huge degree of effort. That's in some ways a good thing but it does encourage complacency and a degree of laziness. There is an assumption that people know where they're going and I'm sure that if, as a new rider you trusted the club to lead you out and back, being dropped in unfamiliar territory could, potentially, be quite frightening and at the very least, very annoying. If you undertake to lead a ride, you do have a responsibility to make sure you keep all on board.
For some time now, a couple of years at least, an alternative clubrun has been taking people out on the quiet lanes of Surrey, Kent and Sussex. They tend to be challenging routes and I am always aware that some have no clue as to where they are. I always count numbers as we leave CSS and we always wait at turns in case someone has been dropped on a climb. It started as a reaction to the boredom of doing the same route each week but also because we wanted something more than the rather rigid style of the clubrun, I suppose we just wanted to have more fun!
The rides don't just happen. I've been riding around the lanes since I was a 16 year old and, although I had a break from cycling when I had kids, I've not lost my love of finding the quiet alternative to the main roads. If I want to make sure that a particular ride works, then I do it in the week and check out any cafe stops to make sure the cake and coffee comes up to scratch. Others used to lead me and, almost like old craftsmen passing on their trade, they introduced me to to the joy of cycling in the countryside and now, as a fat old bloke, I'm doing the same before I go to the bike shop in the sky!
I think, as a club, we should be encouraging people to explore their surroundings and in particular, should be introducing people to the stunning countryside around us and giving people a varied fare of riding experiences. The complacency I've mentioned, seems to want to stifle innovation and I'm sure if it were embraced, we'd have a happier club.
We go out every week please feel free to join us.

[Grahame]

This has made me think again about whether I want to continue being a VC.

What has to be remembered is that we (the VCs) do this voluntarily. It is not a job. We do not get, nor do we seek, any material reward. We (or at least I) do it as a way of helping give something back to the sport/recreation that we enjoy and get so much from.

In the first 6 months of the Addiscombe year, I led groups on 18 weeks (the "commitment" for a VC is understood to be to lead 12 group rides over the year). I started to feel "burned out" and wondered whether I should continue. I have taken a break from the clubrun for nearly 2 months, with Saturday being my return, and as I didn't feel strong enough to lead a group, decided to go with Snoop's scenic sojourn.

Anyway, back on topic. I make a point of briefing "my" group each week before we leave CSS. I know there are several people who don't listen - I see their body language during the briefing, hear them chatting to their mates, etc. but most noticeably, recognise it through their riding. Refusing/failing to communicate hazards such as holes, cars -up, or -down, whether junctions are clear, or insisting on trying to "improve" on the group's target average speed ("great ride this week, the 18s averaged 21mph to the cafe"), etc. This makes the VCs role rather difficult. If one is concentrating on maintaining/creating basic discipline in the major part of the group, it is near impossible to use the eyes in the back of one's head to see somebody who is struggling. This does not excuse us for leaving somebody behind, and I rpide myself on thinking that I won't knowingly leave anybody behind, prefering to ensure the main group knows the route, then dropping back to help the struggler(s) at least get to the safety of the cafe or a railway station.

Remember, VCs do this out of "the goodness of their hearts" not some power crazed lust for glory. Being a VC is more like being a "super domestique" than a star rider. One often has to sacrifice one's own ride targets/goals (or even enjoyment) for the sake of the group experience. This gets wearing, so please bear with us. If you want to help, there are big and little things you can do. Little things include riding with discipline, helping keep the group compact, and letting the VC know if somebody is struggling - prefereably before they "blow" or get dropped. Big things include volunteering to be a VC.

Here endeth the lesson.