Box Hill on the Big Ring

[Sylv]

Strength training in the gym - from Rob's link: http://www.livestrong.com/lance-armstro ... lance-mp4/

[Michelle]

Hey I look just like that, doing all my strenght training in the gym. My pecs are a bit bigger though...

Joking aside, I don't think his form is particularly good, it's not meant to be pliometrics every exercise he does.

Still, I think maybe I can criticise when I have won the Tour Feminin a few more times, eh?

[-Adam-]

Well, that took me quite some time to get through, and I'm not sure I entirely get it.

But basically it's saying that while it may work, the kind of strength training I did to day, may not be the most efficient?

But lets not rule out every 'old school' training type shall we, when they have proven in real life, to work.

I trust my coach, afterall he has trained cyclists to continental professional level.

But don't worry, there's a bit of weight training thrown in there too... just like Lance! Except I'm much more lean than the beefcake he seems to have become lately!!

[Robh]

[quote="-Adam-"]But lets not rule out every 'old school' training type shall we, when they have proven in real life, to work.

[Toks]

Adam, Andrew Coggan is essentially saying that so called 'strength' training on the bike (big gear efforts) doesn't actually build strength - maximum amount of force that can be recruited by a group of muscles - is that right Rob?). So then if big gear training doesn't actually make your legs stronger (thats the proper Exercise Physiology definition not cyclists "he's a strong rider" which means "he's really fit" definition) how comes it appears to work?

Well first of all if you want stronger muscles they need to get bigger (hypertrophy). To do that in the gym you're talking low reps on say a leg press machine. In my gym days (stop sniggering :D )I was told to do 4-8 reps x 3. After a few sessions I was able to push more Kg's and this continued for quite a while. When I moved to 15 -20 (lighter weight) reps X 2 there was less improvement and I'm sure that would continue with even more reps .Ok on box hill you engaged 53/15 and I guess your cadence( 40-60 range) and assuming it took 6-7mins to climb box hill that would be around 240-420 reps and you could clearly continue that effort for a long time which suggests you were no way near maximum force or recruiting much 'strength. In contrast my strength building low rep workout my legs were completely shot for the day after what 12-24 reps. There's no way i could keep going on that machine (your rambling Toks get to the point).

Now clearly if you continue with this workout for a few months you'll get better at climbing in 53/15 mostly because of neural adaptions. Will hypertrophy occur (muscles become bigger) unlikely and minimally if so. But you'd need to do a before and after test in the Gym to see. By the way when I was a Gym rat 5 years ago - much 'stronger' all over I couldn't climb a 10% hill on a low geared mountain bike
The reason I think peeps get stronger with big gear training is the reason why riding hills gets people fitter anyway. It gets you riding at and above your threshold for significant periods of time. Hence you become aerobically/cardiovascularly much fitter. As somone said on 'bike radar' a few years back if going up hills was all about having significant leg muscle Chris Hoy would'nt have been out climbed by hundreds of club cyclist on the Etape a couple of years ago.

[Paul H]

Adam - I notice you carry quite a bit of fat on your legs - did you do a lot of swimming when you were young?

[Snoop Doug]

[quote="-Adam-"]Ask my coach!

As far as I understand, and to be honest all I have to do is push the pedals round, it's a strength gaining excercise. So when I attack a race next year, I can hold that bigger gear just a bit longer before I settle into a more sensible rythm...

[Michelle]

Perhaps Huw can answer it, as I have to do these, starting next week...

[quote="Michelle"]Perhaps Huw can answer it, as I have to do these, starting next week...

[Robh]

The article I posted is a view of "Strength Endurance" training by a physiologist. His comment about ancedotal evidence being less strong than a truly "scientific approach" is interesting as he was the only subject in his own web article. A scientific approoach would normally have more than one person?

This article was discussed on another forum and a few questions popped up :-

1. What were Electromyography (EMG) activities during the different workouts?

2. What changes in Cardiac Output (CO) were seen during the different RPM's by the same watts?
(Someone has looked at this when assessing RPM in different stages and has found possible changes in CO, sometimes no clear change in CO but a change in SV (Stroke Volume) and EDV (End-Diastolic Volume)).

3. What was the difference in the respiratory reactions in the RPM change and therefore possibly a change in the Fraction of Expired Oxygen (FEO2) situation?
(Again this same person doesn't have enough data but has seen in 50 tests so far in the last few month some clear individual reactions in FeO2 % and Tidal Volume (TV) resulting in some changes in metabolic reactions).

4. How much change could you see metabolically with the different RPM's?

5. How where the different reactions immediatly after and a few days later in the ammonia reaction and urea reaction as possible info on metabolic ( protein ) involvement.
(Again this same person asking the questions found 7 years ago whilst testing low and high RPM on some of his athletes some trends in ammonia reactions directly after the different workouts).

6. Were muscle biopsies taken after these workouts to see possibles changes in fibres?

Rob

P.S Hopes everyone has a nice Christmas.

[Toks]

[quote="-Adam-"]So you accept it does work then? A lot of people get very hung up on trying to get specific adaptations from an excercise, as if looking for some quick fix. The fact is if you want to be a better cyclist you have to ride your bike, more.

[quote="Toks"][quote="-Adam-"]So you accept it does work then? A lot of people get very hung up on trying to get specific adaptations from an excercise, as if looking for some quick fix. The fact is if you want to be a better cyclist you have to ride your bike, more.

[Toks]

[quote="Robh"]

For lab rat no.13, 15mph might be his threshold if he was riding in a strong headwind so you can't really use speed to guage intensity?
Rob

[Robh]

Good question...

The answer is I don't know need to get over my current illness, the last 2 months have been a right off regarding training.

[Toks]

ok I hope you get over the lurgy soon.