Team Addiscombe

[quote="George"]I remember when I first started improving and doing the faster groups, quite often I would get dropped and just ride home alone disheartened, this is one of the key reasons I got stronger as a rider, as I hated getting dropped and being the odd one out.

[Paul H]

[quote]I'd hope that the format could be flexible enough to give virtually everybody some serious training benefit. It would be a lesser training group without you Paul.

[Mulberry]

Paul - you can come along on the NP chaingang although you will need very good lights as we train on unlit roads.

I know that many of you have been dropped from the TG in the past and come back for more until you could hang on. I don't doubt that people would get dropped from the new regime planned. However the current format seems to drop riders within the first couple of miles which doesn't really help anyone and arguably for every George who comes back for more there are half a dozen Mildreds (that name shouldn't offend and is the opposite of George!!) who never come back again.

Also if you think the new plan is too easy, bear mind it sounds like you would go harder more consistently for longer which equals a greater training load. One of the reasons the current TG operates in the way it does is arguably because its stifled by the CR route and distance. If you were ride for a minimum of 90 mins without stopping on a challenging route this would allow ample time for the strongest to get a good workout and everybody can go on the front whilst either allowing the stronger guys to do longer turns or simply leaving the last 15mins to be a demonstration of what power those chaps have got left.

Anybody can go super-hard for a short period of time and blow away the opposition. It takes more strength and cunning to go pretty hard for a long time and then go super-hard for 10-15mins at the end. Umm, sounds a bit like a race - well that's why it will help you in races.

I think the suck it and see approach is called for. It might work or it might not, but it's good to evolve. If it does I might even turn up myself ; - )

[Snoop Doug]

I like this mulberry feller - his darts might be a bit wayward but he knows his racing onions . Enjoyable read and yup, the cr is having growing pains eh?? Interesting watching the evolution. Kieran I hadn't realised you were doing your own thang, if I could keep up then I'd be tempted to join you. I need to start getting in some longer rides at a good pace. What's put me off the CR last year is (in no particular order):

Pi55 poor time keeping @ the start
Too many shunts
Not a big fan of riding in poor disciplined groups (tin hat on but that's how it felt to me quite often)

Mebbe I need to come back and see what's what.

Snoop

[Paul H]

Snoop - all your dislikes about the CR dont happen in the TG. There may be other things you might not like though.

Marcus - Dont beleive the hype. There are not shed loads of Mildreds littering the roads of Surrey. Come out with us and see for yourself or ask Dave kennett who came out with us a few weeks ago. Unlike NP there is a big gap between the TG and the next group down and im of the opinion that they should speed this group up rather than slow our one down. Riding pretty hard for 2 hours and really hard for 15mins would be good training but riding pretty slow (which is what it would be) for 2 hours and really hard for 15 mins is not so good.

I recall doing something similar a year or two ago and it didnt work. Andrew G thought so as well.

The ACC TG is not unique, there is a guy from Rochdale who comes out with us sometimes (forgotten his name as well) who has the privilege of going out on CR rides with elites who regularly rip the group to pieces and he finds our ride pretty tame. As far as im aware nobody has tried to hold them back to suit other peoples training.

Im not saying the TG is the best way to train but I enjoy it and it is why I cycle with ACC. I didnt invent the TG. I dont care how other people train. If somebody critcises the way I train then I will respond. If somebody tries to dispand the TG to suit others, then I will respond.

[Andrew G]

What I tried to kick start last year was a B Training Group so that it would allow Novices, 4th cats, weaker 3rd cats, and women a chance to do their own variation of a training ride. Simple reasoning being that with Paul, George and some others being good 2nd cat standard (don't care what their current licence says, I'm sure most would agree that's where they are) could do one training ride, and the lower standard racer do theirs to help develop some more nous(sp?) and get some training for racing without either disrupting a standard steady pace group or trying to hang on and maybe get shed from the A's as if Paul sets off at full tilt then it ain't easy to hang on. I think it happened a few times but I only kicked it off with one and then went off TTing. Personally I think there is a place for it but it's up to those of that standard who want to do it (if they do) to organise it and get it given a shout out at CSS.

For what its worth I took the one I did on the CR in reverse heading out up Chipstead Valley first. This is a tougher route than the normal one and a bit longer so gives a double benefit.

I think Keith's idea is good, also agree with Paul that ideally it should have started earlier to get the early season races, but weather didn't help that. Also it's only just ending Feb so there could be a place for it unless people start filling all their weekends with races to benefit from it in say the June to August races. I think there's also a place for both the current TG style and the variation, alternate or mix and match. Variety is the spice of life .

The TG is undoubtedly the safest group on the CR as it contains some of the most experienced riders and better bike handlers. From what I see the worse aspects of safety come in two situations - a) people riding in their comfort group and chatting and attention slipping from the road, and b) when people move up to the next speed group a little bit too early and get a bit ragged further in to the ride as they tire.

[Keith]

The general view that this is a bit late is probably right. I still think it would be a positive thing to do to try out some new ideas. If they don't work, we'll know not to do the same thing again.

Don't assume that this will be slow easy ride though. It would require endurance from any of the riders working on the front, still leaving enough for the attacks that would happen on the last fast laps(s). It would require those less quick riders to hold a wheel and shelter behind the group for a long period.

[quote="Paul H"]
Is this new training ride really your idea? Did you discuss with others first?

[huw williams]

You leave me out of this

I think Keith's idea is good for developing more riders who are currently 'bubbling under' up to training group standards, and as Marcus says, used correctly can benefit those already at that standard.

I also think the training group/chaingangs are of huge benefit as they stand and you don't want to change them. Riding with George, Paul and co at that intensity has provided first class preparation to many riders who have gone on to start racing. I'm certainly advocating their benefits to riders I'm coaching and advise them to use the training group as a stepping stone to their first races

Seems to me that in a club this size, with so many riders keen on racing or just training hard, we are in the unusual position where its not a case of either or, its a case of doing both (though not at the same time ) - alternate weekends maybe, or one on saturday, one on sunday, as i can see excellent training benefits in either approach

You'll soon find that riders will migrate between the two depending on their individual requirements and time restraints and I'd lay money that a lot of riders will end up doing both formats and enjoying the diversity they offer. Everyone's happy

[mlocke]

The B training group stopped just because of winter and everyone generally slowing down I thought.

I was hoping that it would be starting again once the weather warms up and people up the pace slightly.

I found this a great prep for racing and feel I was even close to joining the full training group till my hip starting misbehaving.

Ideally this will all start again and I have every intention of joining it once I feel the hip can handle the additional intensity and my legs have the speed

Locky

[Jon H]

[quote="Mulberry"]I suspect that ACC is quite unique in the UK in being so big with just one official ride and if you look at the way other clubs operate in the UK I would be amazed if you could find another that follows this pattern. Whilst its nice to be unique you will find that the "common" set up with official rides on Sat & Sun plus organised chaingangs / training sessions helps cater for mixed abilities and provides scope for rapid progression if people so desire.

[Andrew G]

I wasn't suggesting it was too late to start it Keith, only a bit late if you all wanted to fly as an organised unit in the first races of the season. Bags of time for the main racing season, it's just got moved further and further forward to when people start over the years but I don't believe you can race from March to August at full intensity anyway, let alone when you're fitting it in around a job and other commitments.

[kieran]

Hi Snoop, yep, doing my own thing, as my commute is stop and start I do the accelerations and sprints there, on the saturday morning I'm looking for a steady high(ish) intensity long ride and have found that the best way for me to do this at the pace that suits me is do at least to do the ride out to the cafe on my own and then maybe use a group for extra motivation on the way home (when otherwise tempted to take it easy).

My 2p's worth is that the TG should remain as it is and another group should be formed to do rides like Keith proposes, I'm sure some days riders will do one or the other. How many potential riders are there for these groups anyway? should be enough to go around.

[Amy]

[quote="Snoop Doug"]What's put me off the CR last year is (in no particular order):

Pi55 poor time keeping @ the start
Too many shunts
Not a big fan of riding in poor disciplined groups (tin hat on but that's how it felt to me quite often)

Mebbe I need to come back and see what's what.

Snoop

[Snoop Doug]

[quote="kieran"]Hi Snoop, yep, doing my own thing, as my commute is stop and start I do the accelerations and sprints there, on the saturday morning I'm looking for a steady high(ish) intensity long ride and have found that the best way for me to do this at the pace that suits me is do at least to do the ride out to the cafe on my own and then maybe use a group for extra motivation on the way home (when otherwise tempted to take it easy).

My 2p's worth is that the TG should remain as it is and another group should be formed to do rides like Keith proposes, I'm sure some days riders will do one or the other. How many potential riders are there for these groups anyway? should be enough to go around.

[kieran]

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